XWL Points System... Opinions wanted.

First topic message reminder :

Okay so as some of you saw, I mentioned this in chat and a few people seemed for it, including Kyle and now David.

Basically, It'd be a rankings system based solely on points awarded for matches/promos.. taking out the whole opinion side of any rankings we've had and any time we've chosen title contenders. I know a lot of people have opinions about some title contenders being biased etc this would be in place to avoid any of that.


Points would be awarded for doing a match, winning a normal/tag/specialty match. Extra points would be awarded in feud matches also.


Points will be awarded for promos,but they won't be scored, each promo will receive the same amount of points, so an opinion won't play a factor in this. Joint Promos will score higher than solo promos.


The points will be decided if this comes into effect, but first we want to get everyones opinions on it, since it will effect everyone.

Fn wrote:

RCP wrote:

Should be a 1-3. Idk how you could decide this without being biased, but if you could find a way it'd be much better than just saying to make it unbiased everyone will get the same amount of points. I mean, I don't like a checklist, but if that's what you'd have to do for this to work then so be it.

Yeah, but wouldn't a checklist be even worse, I mean what're we supposed to say oh it wasn't this long or believable so then that's down a point or something stupid like that. Yeah I get where you're coming from, and I understand it but, how else can we do a ranking system and not include promos lol. If we do it just to matches again people are still going to think we're favoring someone over someone else. & this is coming from someone who is on a horrible losing streak as Michelle, but is also trying to promo more, so I don't know what else I can say lol.

Where did I say I didn't want to include promos... Meant they should be included, but you can't just say to everyone you get a set amount of points for them.

RCP wrote:

Dave™ wrote:

RCP wrote:

Meant to also say, if it's okay for people who don't promo well to get the same amount of points as people who do, then, why not in the same logic does everyone get the same amount of points for completing a match? Not saying they should, but people who lose matches and promo well are being screwed here

Replying to this because it's the easiest, people who lose matches are not being screwed because they get a point for just competing instead of losing a point for losing, which means that people who have trouble winning but promo regularly can get opportunities as well.

Would be easier to reply to this if I could see the point totals for each, but this seems like it's scaling matches to be a lot more which hurts people who wouldn't be good at them

Personally, I'd score promos more since they're more effort than matches.

RCP wrote:

Fn wrote:

RCP wrote:

Should be a 1-3. Idk how you could decide this without being biased, but if you could find a way it'd be much better than just saying to make it unbiased everyone will get the same amount of points. I mean, I don't like a checklist, but if that's what you'd have to do for this to work then so be it.

Yeah, but wouldn't a checklist be even worse, I mean what're we supposed to say oh it wasn't this long or believable so then that's down a point or something stupid like that. Yeah I get where you're coming from, and I understand it but, how else can we do a ranking system and not include promos lol. If we do it just to matches again people are still going to think we're favoring someone over someone else. & this is coming from someone who is on a horrible losing streak as Michelle, but is also trying to promo more, so I don't know what else I can say lol.

Where did I say I didn't want to include promos... Meant they should be included, but you can't just say to everyone you get a set amount of points for them.

I know, we all agree but we're trying to remove any opinion/biased factor from the league that might crop up,if we score promos then it'd be opinion oriented again.



I've suggested scoring promos on a scale of 1 to 3(just an example, if we found a way to do then it'dbe higher), but the problem is it'd be opinion based from whoever scored them.


People would get offended if we scored theirs a 2 and they felt it should be a 3.

Gazza wrote:

RCP wrote:

Dave™ wrote:

RCP wrote:

Meant to also say, if it's okay for people who don't promo well to get the same amount of points as people who do, then, why not in the same logic does everyone get the same amount of points for completing a match? Not saying they should, but people who lose matches and promo well are being screwed here

Replying to this because it's the easiest, people who lose matches are not being screwed because they get a point for just competing instead of losing a point for losing, which means that people who have trouble winning but promo regularly can get opportunities as well.

Would be easier to reply to this if I could see the point totals for each, but this seems like it's scaling matches to be a lot more which hurts people who wouldn't be good at them

Personally, I'd score promos more since they're more effort than matches.

Yes!!!!!!!

That's why just saying two points per promo is so stupid, no one seemed to have a problem when Krzy scored promos and he didn't give everyone the same on his newsletter. You don't even need to put it out in the open, just have the amounts of points put up somewhere, and weekly update the leaderboards. Chances are not many people are going to go through and individually tally up all there points to figure out how many their promo got scored for. Like Krzy never put numbers for ranks with his promos, and I bet no one even knows what he ranked majority of their promos. But if matches are going to have different totals based on win and lose, then promos should have different totals based on good and bad to make it the level playing field we all want.

RCP wrote:

Fn wrote:

RCP wrote:

Should be a 1-3. Idk how you could decide this without being biased, but if you could find a way it'd be much better than just saying to make it unbiased everyone will get the same amount of points. I mean, I don't like a checklist, but if that's what you'd have to do for this to work then so be it.

Yeah, but wouldn't a checklist be even worse, I mean what're we supposed to say oh it wasn't this long or believable so then that's down a point or something stupid like that. Yeah I get where you're coming from, and I understand it but, how else can we do a ranking system and not include promos lol. If we do it just to matches again people are still going to think we're favoring someone over someone else. & this is coming from someone who is on a horrible losing streak as Michelle, but is also trying to promo more, so I don't know what else I can say lol.

Where did I say I didn't want to include promos... Meant they should be included, but you can't just say to everyone you get a set amount of points for them.

Why not though? It's like Gaz said maybe someone puts in the same amount of effort that I or Z or whoever else does in their promos, but they just aren't on that "level" yet. They're still putting in the effort and that's why I'm kind of against the whole different scores for different promos because it'd be completely opinion based and wouldn't really help us at all.

Also every week the same person should probably review all the promos since everyone scores differently tbh. Wouldn't be fair if some people got the hard reviewer and some got the easier one.

RCP wrote:

Gazza wrote:

RCP wrote:

Dave™ wrote:

RCP wrote:

Meant to also say, if it's okay for people who don't promo well to get the same amount of points as people who do, then, why not in the same logic does everyone get the same amount of points for completing a match? Not saying they should, but people who lose matches and promo well are being screwed here

Replying to this because it's the easiest, people who lose matches are not being screwed because they get a point for just competing instead of losing a point for losing, which means that people who have trouble winning but promo regularly can get opportunities as well.

Would be easier to reply to this if I could see the point totals for each, but this seems like it's scaling matches to be a lot more which hurts people who wouldn't be good at them

Personally, I'd score promos more since they're more effort than matches.

Yes!!!!!!!

That's why just saying two points per promo is so stupid, no one seemed to have a problem when Krzy scored promos and he didn't give everyone the same on his newsletter. You don't even need to put it out in the open, just have the amounts of points put up somewhere, and weekly update the leaderboards. Chances are not many people are going to go through and individually tally up all there points to figure out how many their promo got scored for. Like Krzy never put numbers for ranks with his promos, and I bet no one even knows what he ranked majority of their promos. But if matches are going to have different totals based on win and lose, then promos should have different totals based on good and bad to make it the level playing field we all want.

No one had a problem with Krzy's scoring because it was his opinion yes, but it had no effect on their standing in XWL. This would, and that's why I don't see how the opinion based thing is beneficial for this change. We don't take points off for a loss, we give them a point for just competing so it's not like it's not fair. That's why it's different, a win means more, but if they lose they don't go down, they get a point for putting in the effort of getting their match done.

Okay, I'd be willing to read and score promos on a set scale every week..but I wouldn't make the scoring open, Most people would figure it out I'm sure,but I wouldn't post it in a review or anything, I'd just note it down for myself. Obviously someone would score my promos, so I wouldn't do my own.I'd do it on a trial run basis, see how it goes down with people,and I'd obviously do it fair and unbiased.

Gazza wrote:

Okay, I'd be willing to read and score promos on a set scale every week..but I wouldn't make the scoring open, Most people would figure it out I'm sure,but I wouldn't post it in a review or anything, I'd just note it down for myself. Obviously someone would score my promos, so I wouldn't do my own.I'd do it on a trial run basis, see how it goes down with people,and I'd obviously do it fair and unbiased.

Of course they could figure it out if they wanted, but doubt a lot of people would go through the trouble to. And everything else seems pretty much the way it should be

RCP wrote:

Dave™ wrote:

RCP wrote:

Gazza wrote:

RCP wrote:

Dave™ wrote:

RCP wrote:

Meant to also say, if it's okay for people who don't promo well to get the same amount of points as people who do, then, why not in the same logic does everyone get the same amount of points for completing a match? Not saying they should, but people who lose matches and promo well are being screwed here

Replying to this because it's the easiest, people who lose matches are not being screwed because they get a point for just competing instead of losing a point for losing, which means that people who have trouble winning but promo regularly can get opportunities as well.

Would be easier to reply to this if I could see the point totals for each, but this seems like it's scaling matches to be a lot more which hurts people who wouldn't be good at them

Personally, I'd score promos more since they're more effort than matches.

Yes!!!!!!!

That's why just saying two points per promo is so stupid, no one seemed to have a problem when Krzy scored promos and he didn't give everyone the same on his newsletter. You don't even need to put it out in the open, just have the amounts of points put up somewhere, and weekly update the leaderboards. Chances are not many people are going to go through and individually tally up all there points to figure out how many their promo got scored for. Like Krzy never put numbers for ranks with his promos, and I bet no one even knows what he ranked majority of their promos. But if matches are going to have different totals based on win and lose, then promos should have different totals based on good and bad to make it the level playing field we all want.

No one had a problem with Krzy's scoring because it was his opinion yes, but it had no effect on their standing in XWL. This would, and that's why I don't see how the opinion based thing is beneficial for this change. We don't take points off for a worse promo, we give them a point for just promoing so it's not like it's not fair. That's why it's different, a good promo means more, but if they do a worse promo they don't go down, they get a point for putting in the effort of getting their promo done.

You don't see how that's bad? It's strictly opinion at that point, that is not good. People bitch and moan behind our backs apparently saying we're biased and shit, and then want us to judge their promos on different scoring levels, logic.

I'd do it on a trial basis but if people started complaining it was biased or whatever,then I'd probably stop.

That's what needs to be made clear,if we do it on a scale for promos then there needs to be no complaining about biased or anything, as It'd be done 100% fair.

Gazza wrote:

I'd do it on a trial basis but if people started complaining it was biased or whatever,then I'd probably stop.

That's what needs to be made clear,if we do it on a scale for promos then there needs to be no complaining about biased or anything, as It'd be done 100% fair.

That's why I don't get it, people like it because we couldn't be biased by doing this change, and yet if we score promos differently based on opinion it goes back to basically what we already do.

Dave™ wrote:

RCP wrote:

Dave™ wrote:

RCP wrote:

Gazza wrote:

RCP wrote:

Dave™ wrote:

RCP wrote:

Meant to also say, if it's okay for people who don't promo well to get the same amount of points as people who do, then, why not in the same logic does everyone get the same amount of points for completing a match? Not saying they should, but people who lose matches and promo well are being screwed here

Replying to this because it's the easiest, people who lose matches are not being screwed because they get a point for just competing instead of losing a point for losing, which means that people who have trouble winning but promo regularly can get opportunities as well.

Would be easier to reply to this if I could see the point totals for each, but this seems like it's scaling matches to be a lot more which hurts people who wouldn't be good at them

Personally, I'd score promos more since they're more effort than matches.

Yes!!!!!!!

That's why just saying two points per promo is so stupid, no one seemed to have a problem when Krzy scored promos and he didn't give everyone the same on his newsletter. You don't even need to put it out in the open, just have the amounts of points put up somewhere, and weekly update the leaderboards. Chances are not many people are going to go through and individually tally up all there points to figure out how many their promo got scored for. Like Krzy never put numbers for ranks with his promos, and I bet no one even knows what he ranked majority of their promos. But if matches are going to have different totals based on win and lose, then promos should have different totals based on good and bad to make it the level playing field we all want.

No one had a problem with Krzy's scoring because it was his opinion yes, but it had no effect on their standing in XWL. This would, and that's why I don't see how the opinion based thing is beneficial for this change. We don't take points off for a worse promo, we give them a point for just promoing so it's not like it's not fair. That's why it's different, a good promo means more, but if they do a worse promo they don't go down, they get a point for putting in the effort of getting their promo done.

You don't see how that's bad? It's strictly opinion at that point, that is not good. People bitch and moan behind our backs apparently saying we're biased and shit, and then want us to judge their promos on different scoring levels, logic.

But I've never said that so not sure where you're going with that...

And using opinions aren't even bad, there's always going to be controversial decisions made of course because nowhere is perfect, but that's no reason to get rid of decisions and replace them with a flawed system. And with the points the only thing that could change is a couple of points in a system, which to me doesn't seem like it's going to cause anyone to go out of their way and complain how biased the one point they lost that they think they should have had was.

But it wouldn't go back to what you already do. What you do now is pick people, this would tell you who to pick still.

If we went with the system on page one, it basically wouldn't solve the problem, it would just make a new problem tbh. Yes, it would solve the existing one, but it would cause a new problem anyways.

RCP you haven't ran this league for four years like I have, trust me, there will be conflict. Judging promos based on opinion is what we basically already do without putting out a system, and that's how we judge who should get what, by their activity and their promos, and yet people call it biased now, yet want us to do the same thing we already do as something new, when it's not new at all. I get what you say about scoring promos differently but there is no way to do that without people bitching at some point. People love to throw the biased card around, and by judging promos based on opinion, that'll get thrown around even more.

Instead of scoring the promo it's self

How about we do 5 Points for any promo posted.


Then we have extras

like

+1 For good layout

+1 for Pictures used

+1 per paragraph of the promo


or something alone those lines.

I like that idea, not biased, not opinion based and there would be extras for people that do those things without it being unfair to anyone.

Dave™ wrote:

I like that idea, not biased, not opinion based and there would be extras for people that do those things without it being unfair to anyone.

Pretty much my thoughts on this. Sometimes I have trouble finding pics/cba to get them but it's done in a way that it's varied enough to keep it fair IMO.

Gazza wrote:

Instead of scoring the promo it's self

How about we do 5 Points for any promo posted.


Then we have extras

like

+1 For good layout

+1 for Pictures used

+1 per paragraph of the promo


or something alone those lines.

Was going to say something like this, but thought people would say we can't grade on length :L.

And if we were to do this, just nitpicking by grading like .1 per line instead of 1 per paragraph may be better because again people could just make small paragraphs . Wouldn't be troubled if you stuck to paragraphs tho, just suggesting. Dnt want 1 line paragraphs lol. But I like this system much better than the original everyone gets a set amoount.

RCP wrote:

Gazza wrote:

Instead of scoring the promo it's self

How about we do 5 Points for any promo posted.


Then we have extras

like

+1 For good layout

+1 for Pictures used

+1 per paragraph of the promo


or something alone those lines.

Was going to say something like this, but thought people would say we can't grade on length :L.

And if we were to do this, just nitpicking by grading like .1 per line instead of 1 per paragraph may be better because again people could just make small paragraphs . But I like this system much better than the original everyone gets a set amoount

This way we meet you half way by scoring them differently, but by basing it on something we all could see, not what one person feels.

I like the idea of a point system. People will bitch tho it s what happens in all league at their times.

Man of pain wrote:

I like the idea of a point system. People will bitch tho it s what happens in all league at their times.

Honestly don't see how anyone can with this, it's a fair unbiased way of doing it.


and RCP, Maybe but we're just trying to come up with extras now that could make a difference. 0.1 per line could work but then people would be on random points like 43.2 orsomething

Yeah I don't mind this system that you've just said at all, at least now there's some reason to not just do a promo that says" *Ninja appears* Ninja: Hey XWL *Ninja leaves*" and get full credit.

Gazza wrote:

Man of pain wrote:

I like the idea of a point system. People will bitch tho it s what happens in all league at their times.

Honestly don't see how anyone can with this, it's a fair unbiased way of doing it.


and RCP, Maybe but we're just trying to come up with extras now that could make a difference. 0.1 per line could work but then people would be on random points like 43.2 orsomething

Could just round up or round down, dunno. Just thought .1 because 10 lines would be a point and 10 lines is a pretty basic number so I supposed it'd be a good number lol