WWYD: The Future of XWL

Dash, you're not really helping our cause by being hostile. If we're going to win our argument, then we'll have to do so with reason and proving that we could handle ourselves... which I think we could.

When you guys say it's a future possibility, but not right now I'm going to hope you mean as in by November... If you mean by 2k16, then you're crazy because anybody who's currently in the league wanting to move to PS4 will have already done so with another league if they can't do so here.

Now, my original plan which I wanted to go through was this...

Come early-mid October, I was going to start rallying my troops and getting members to sign up. It's really not hard to recruit people and eventually some are bound to stick. I was thinking maybe we have a less-than-ideally run brand the first couple of weeks, but the important part is it'd have matches and promos that could set the framework for the future.

With continuous advertising through to January and the foreseeable future, I'm sure we could rally enough members for a LEGITIMATE brand that would be competitive with the Xbox brand. We've already got a solid framework of seven guys who promo weekly so, realistically, it's within reach.

I never once thought we'd start up the brand and stick to our guns with seven people because that'd be foolish. The brand idea wasn't intended to be discussed as possibly starting with seven people... that's foolish.

I won't have the game until Christmas myself. I'll play on 2k14 360 until December (1-month rule) and for that next three weeks, I'm not sure what I'll do. Probably just not play matches.

The start is going to be inevitably rough, but if you let us seven go, then your league of Xbox-only people is going to have significantly less in it and, if you truly believe it so difficult to get members, you're going to have an awful hard time replacing us.

Plus, it's easy to market a league that has the appeal of being on three platforms. Three times the members. I could easily see us expanding greatly and far past where we are right now.

Finally, I'd like to keep the petty arguing out of this thread. I don't think Dash was really saying anything negative about SinAndBonez... he was moreso trying to say that if one of Filth's dear friends were to be excluded, then he'd be more upset. It was more of a personal vs. impersonal league-relationship comparison than anything so there was really no reason to be offended. However, the tone of Dash's message was kind of hostile so I see the reactions. Though, there's still no reason to call him names or anything because I'm not sure how you could see that as any better.

All in all, I definitely think a PS4 brand will work because we have several people capable of making it work. Whether or not you see that right now is irrelevant because it's only August and, by October, you'll later realize we can pull it off when we have members signing up to join us and start our LEGITIMATE brand... not a second-rate show.

P.S. Not sure if I wrote this in or not because I was typing very fast to get in everything, but I'm looking at end of November start ideally for the PS4 brand.

The Zack wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

  to Zack and David's posts.

How come I don't get my name capitalized tho.

What you guys said. To a T.

This, coming from me especially, was a hard decision but it's one I agreed on was the best interest of the league for right here right now. As you know I was a PS3 user back when I first joined xwl six years ago yesterday. So I can understand where you're coming from. As I too, was on the outside looking in but, that being said you have to realize for the best interest of the league this is the best decision we can come to at this point in time. We're not saying it's forever.

We've openly even said if you have 360 and want to get the game and play still you can. I have no choice but to do that for myself. It's the issue of having a ps4, that to all of us, just isn't worth it right herre, right now. Are we saying we won't do this in the future? No we're not. I'd like it to happen. I'd even help bring over some ps4 people, but it's that unknowingness of some of the things David mentioned and Zack mentioned, that makes it not worth it at this point in time. Eventually yes. Right now no.

ThatGuy wrote:

That doesn't mean that a month after we might not be able to do it.

1. We won't have any more current-PS4 members then than we do now.
2. Best time to get members is logically when the game first launches... especially on a new system.
3. It's hard to bring new people into a PS4 side without having a PS4 side so we'd just need something small to start out with to at least entice people enough to join.

We're not going to put in the effort and the risk of a new brand for the sake of 2 properly active members.The rest of the PS4 people have had activity problems in past, some on multiple occasions. All it would do is fail, and lead to even more issues after going through the effort of it all. You can't sit there and guarantee it will work. The admins have decided and all agreed on what we think is best for now, we don't want to lose members...but end of the day, This is a Xbox league, always has been, I don't get why anyone can be mad over an Xbox league not having a PS4.

All of the main effort is being put into securing stuff for the Xbox 360/ and One users to do because that of course is the logical thing to do since people know we've been an Xbox league, so naturally it'd continue into the new generation of it.


No one is dismissing the eventual idea of having a PS4 Brand, but we can't put the time and effort into actually putting that into motion until the initial chaos of 360/One is behind us. That's not 2K16  that's just sometime after the 2K15 launch and before that ideally speaking.


It's going to take determined people, people who will be active, who will not leave when you need them most, and XWL has a history of people joining, leaving, coming back, and repeat a whole bunch. You need people that will actually stay around from start until it's stable, which is a challenge in itself.

You also need people that will be qualified in running that PS4 Brand, because they'll need to be present for certain matches, enforce the rules in ways Xbox people won't be able to, and it's extra work for all of us.

No matter who it is, we don't wanna lose them, but ANYONE saying that if it was so and so you'd have a more difficult time deciding this, need to get out of that mindset right now because that's just making you look stupid for even saying such a thing.

Danny you are newer here but you have been good and active, we of course don't wanna lose you but you have to realize that we've been here all this time, you are new, it's easy to think you know how to start things up and get things stable but the truth is it's not as easy as you think. For one, usually when you advertise, you get one out of the first four that actually stay around, and contribute. You're not gonna recruit a whole bunch and them all be reliable and follow the XWL Way. There's a huge history of people wanting something but not actually putting in the effort required to make it possible.


You'll need to enforce the promo every two weeks thing, which some people won't be for after they join, because people just join and waste characters all the time. It's going to take so much work and time to even think of starting a brand for it, let alone actually starting it.

Also

"It was more of a personal vs. impersonal league-relationship comparison than anything so there was really no reason to be offended."


No, there was because Dash was implying bias, which he knows is foolish, asinine, and plain wrong. Yes we all have our friends but we don't want to actually lose anyone in all of this. Bias is the easy go to excuse to use when something is said that you don't like, but it's always entirely stupid and will not progress a discussion or make anyone take any thought you may have with a grain of salt.

As for the "work" part, I alongside Oreo and anyone else willing could put in the PS4 side work so there wouldn't be much for you guys anyways. Bloodshank is even solid at graphics so he could be our go-to for that.

And I get the concept of not everyone sticking, but some inevitably will and we'll just have to cycle through the ones that don't.

And the simple solution is to post something about the promo requirement in our advertisement. Obviously, some still won't be for it, but those people can just be removed.

I understand your view that it's a hard undertaking, but I think we'd be able to handle it however smooth or roughly it may go. I just think we have a decent start-up cast which could lead to great things if given an opportunity to flourish.

Danny Boy wrote:

As for the "work" part, I alongside Oreo and anyone else willing could put in the PS4 side work so there wouldn't be much for you guys anyways. Bloodshank is even solid at graphics so he could be our go-to for that.

And I get the concept of not everyone sticking, but some inevitably will and we'll just have to cycle through the ones that don't.

And the simple solution is to post something about the promo requirement in our advertisement. Obviously, some still won't be for it, but those people can just be removed.

I understand your view that it's a hard undertaking, but I think we'd be able to handle it however smooth or roughly it may go. I just think we have a decent start-up cast which could lead to great things if given an opportunity to flourish.

That's the thing, only very few stick and when the PS4 side only has Oreo who has proven he can stick around for a good amount of time, that isn't enough. David and Kyle have been done this for 6 years...It's safe to so say they know what they're doing. Other people have been in leagues for quite a few years, agree with our decision too. It's easy to sit there and say it'll work because of this and this...But when it comes down to it, it never happens like that.

As for the "work" part, I alongside Oreo and anyone else willing could put in the PS4 side work so there wouldn't be much for you guys anyways. Bloodshank is even solid at graphics so he could be our go-to for that.


Nothing against bloodshank, but he's been in and out of this league several times, and that's a factor you have to take into account when looking for reliable people that can help something flourish.

Oreo can also do graphics. So we do have backup there.






And I get the concept of not everyone sticking, but some inevitably will and we'll just have to cycle through the ones that don't.

But the thing about that is, how long before someone on that side gets sick of having so little to do, that they find it pointless and leave? The immediate thought you need to have, is that not everyone you think will be reliable right now, actually will be. Because you have to prepare for the bad times, and that means losing key people that you will lose. You need to be ready for that, not depend on one sole person for this because if they stray away, that's it.

Yes, we know we'll lose pieces along the way. We'll also pick some up. When XWL was first started six years ago I'm pretty sure it didn't have seven members... it probably only had one, you, and maybe two if you had any friends helping you launch.







I understand your view that it's a hard undertaking, but I think we'd be able to handle it however smooth or roughly it may go. I just think we have a decent start-up cast which could lead to great things if given an opportunity to flourish.



You don't though, don't get me wrong I love having everyone here, no matter if they're super active or involved, because it's nice to have different groups of people to do stuff with...but you don't even come close to having a decent start-up cast. There are so many factor that you're not taking into account, it's already going to be super difficult for the 360/one thing, the PS4 thing is possible after that probably, but nothing is gonna be smooth at first, and you need that back up, which will all be in keeping the 360 afloat.

Not so sure how keeping 360 afloat is related unless you're implying us PS4 people should pick up the 360 copy, but I'm not really wanting to buy the game twice. We do have seven members, though, which is decent to me. Seven people as the base to build around (seven who, let's say you're right and a couple quit, probably gives us five...) who are active is solid. We'll pick up new guys and it'll all be good.

Remember, the PS4 side isn't a whole league. It's just one brand. A brand with 15-20 members seems well enough for me and that seems like a reachable goal.



















Also, I do get your view. However, if it was you who was about to be put off to another console without having a brand to support you, then you'd be trying to state your case as well. You really can't fault any of us there.

It takes more than one person to do pics, people get lazy, maybe at first they'll be doing them rapidly fast but eventually they'll be like oh I'll do it later and you'll wind up needing work done that nobody will do. But honestly pics are the least of your worries.


When XWL first started there were actually more than five members, started a thread on IGN and people signed up, it was different system then no requirements or structure, but I had witnessed a league go under so I went in with the mindset of doing the opposite of what they did.


Just you, Oreo, or whatever cannot successfully start up a brand for PS4. That is a fact, nothing against any of you, but it takes so much more work than you can understand right now. As someone that's run a league for this long, you have to have literally ever base covered.


Why do you think we haven't had a tag division? Wouldn't that essentially be a type of brand in itself? Having just tag-teams mixing stuff up? Because of reliability. In anything that is done, you need a strong lead of people that can be dependable, and want the same thing. Now some will say they want this, and will do this at first, but after a month, two, or three...it all comes to a screeching halt and dies. The initial support is going into the 360/One. When that is secure, and everything with that is stable, then we would be able to discuss and launch a PS4 Brand. But this will not be something done when the game comes out. Believe it or not you, ore, or any other five in that group are not enough to even think of starting it.


You yourself might not, and maybe oreo might not, but there will be half of what you have, that will leave within ninety days. That is a fact, not a knock on anyone that would be on that side, but that is statistics. You get a good crop of people, and lose AT THE VERY LEAST half of that. It will fail immediately, you won't acquire a roster super fast, XWL didn't take off until it's six month really.

But we had dependable people that stuck it out, and added to it, and were willing to help. Yes this PS4 thing isn't a separate league, but it would be treated like it initially because there is already so much work that none of you notice is required of us. The whole getting people to play right is already going to be a task in itself because if people have a bad first match they'll leave. Some will be understanding of it being new and all, but some people over the years have joined, and never signed in from the minute they joined. Some have joined, done a good week, and then never signed back in. Some have joined, done a match, had issues with the opponent,  and wouldn't listen to anything we said and left.


When looking into a PS4 Brand you have to look into every negative before you look at what positives you may see. Because those negatives aren't just possibilities, they WILL happen. You need a strong structure to prepare for that, a strong group of people that will understand it will not be smooth sailing for the first bit, and that first bit isn't just a month, or two...no, this is going to be a long process that everyone involved has to be ready for.


I would love a PS4 Brand, hell I was immediately on board, but seeing the facts, and getting past my own "oh yeah that'll work" attitude that I always have initially...this is going to be more difficult than XWL has ever had to deal with before.

Soooo... in that case, what will it take of us to "file" (I guess? I'm not sure what else you could call it?) for us to have a brand made for us?

Danny Boy wrote:

Soooo... in that case, what will it take of us to "file" (I guess? I'm not sure what else you could call it?) for us to have a brand made for us?

Simply put, patience for us to get this 360/One thing rolling. We are all on board with trying it, but not yet, we're not going to promise you a time because it's not fair to get your hopes up or say it'll be on this day or month. Basically we are for one, it's just we have to go step by step with this, we have to keep everything else stable before we can think of adding something else. If we just went and tried everything from the start it would all fail, fact. 360/One/PS4 it'd be a huge cluster fuck. We know you guys wanna stay here, and we want you to stay here even more, but we have to be smart about how all of this is done. As of this date, August 6th, a PS4 Brand is not in motion. That's not to say that it wouldn't be by December, or January, when more people had newer consoles. Basically this is a patience thing, you either have it and bare with us, as we aspire to make it a thing in the future. Or, you think we're being unfair about it and leave. It's a difficult situation to be in as a league, but we have to do what's best for the league first and foremost. Which is focusing on one new console at a time.

Rome wasn't built in a day, Danny. It takes not just someone who can lead a group, but others who can support that leader. And in true honesty, looking at the people who said they were going to the PS4, no offense is meant when I say that I don't think anyone on that list is going to have that type of spirit. It takes a lot of trial and error to run a league, you have to find someone who can take that, and not give up after the first couple of mistakes, and not do something to absolutely tank the place, either.

The Zack wrote:

Rome wasn't built in a day, Danny.

It really wasn't about being a soon thing. We obviously can't start it now... the game isn't coming for two months.

It was just a we're going to need to start rallying the troops before the game is even out and no one's going to want to wait until December to start so starting the brand in December/January means starting EVERYTHING in December/January.

I personally won't have the game until Christmas most likely anyways so it's not like I'm saying this because I want to rush right into the league myself on release day. Other people looking for leagues, however, will want to join around then... in my opinion.

Anyways, we've pretty much come to a stalemate where none of the people who actually have votes in the matter are on our side so we may as well put it to rest until a later date, but this is likely to be a discussion again... later.

Danny Boy wrote:

The Zack wrote:

Rome wasn't built in a day, Danny.

It really wasn't about being a soon thing. We obviously can't start it now... the game isn't coming for two months.

It was just a we're going to need to start rallying the troops before the game is even out and no one's going to want to wait until December to start so starting the brand in December/January means starting EVERYTHING in December/January.

I personally won't have the game until Christmas most likely anyways so it's not like I'm saying this because I want to rush right into the league myself on release day. Other people looking for leagues, however, will want to join around then... in my opinion.

Anyways, we've pretty much come to a stalemate where none of the people who actually have votes in the matter are on our side so we may as well put it to rest until a later date, but this is likely to be a discussion again... later.

Well, of course it is, there was no question about that. Every single admin, and even several members, have told you countless times in this thread that we're open for discussing it later. It's just that, right now, it wouldn't work. Not for the better-ment of the league as a whole. Transitioning something like this is huge and it's best to take baby-steps and make sure you have your footing in place. As we said we're open to doing things but right now it's just not an option. But yea, discussion at a later date is fine, and it always has been.

I don't understand people asking for a PS4 brand. Is it because some users are planning on getting the game on PS4 or am I missing something? We have turned away countless people over the years who were looking for a PS3 league or wanted to make a card or whatever for the PS3. Question, why would that be any different now or are we just trying to keep certain people around? If that was wanted as an option wouldn't it have been done years ago? I personally don't think having multiple consoles for one league would work, I would give it a month before there is a ridiculous console war (Because this is the internet afterall).

If you want my input then two brands is the way to go until everyone gets an XBONE but don't go and over-complicate things by bringing in other consoles and other ideas that are pointless.

Shuggz wrote:

I don't understand people asking for a PS4 brand. Is it because some users are planning on getting the game on PS4 or am I missing something? We have turned away countless people over the years who were looking for a PS3 league or wanted to make a card or whatever for the PS3. Question, why would that be any different now or are we just trying to keep certain people around? If that was wanted as an option wouldn't it have been done years ago? I personally don't think having multiple consoles for one league would work, I would give it a month before there is a ridiculous console war (Because this is the internet afterall).

If you want my input then two brands is the way to go until everyone gets an XBONE but don't go and over-complicate things by bringing in other consoles and other ideas that are pointless.

Yes. They're getting the game for ps4 and wanted to make a ps4 brand.

Shuggz wrote:

I don't understand people asking for a PS4 brand. Is it because some users are planning on getting the game on PS4 or am I missing something? We have turned away countless people over the years who were looking for a PS3 league or wanted to make a card or whatever for the PS3. Question, why would that be any different now or are we just trying to keep certain people around? If that was wanted as an option wouldn't it have been done years ago? I personally don't think having multiple consoles for one league would work, I would give it a month before there is a ridiculous console war (Because this is the internet afterall).

If you want my input then two brands is the way to go until everyone gets an XBONE but don't go and over-complicate things by bringing in other consoles and other ideas that are pointless.

Everything Shuggz said here is true. I don't think there should be a split for the PS4 now at all. It really makes no sense to me how people that are getting the PS4 thinks we would make a WHOLE brand for them. Look at the text under the logo at the top of the page and it reads "An Xbox 360 League For The WWE 2K14 Video Game". Now someone please correct me if I am wrong but did people really think we where going to go to PS4 if we started on a XBOX system? Like Shuggz has said, we have turned down countless people on the PS3 so what really makes you think we where opening the league up to the PS4? Don't get me wrong it would suck not having some of you like Oreo and Danny but the truth behind the matter is this, We should not have to accomedate the few people that want a PS4 over the One. It's great you want a PS4, hell the main reason I am getting a One is just for XWL and a few friends who are getting a One so it really came down to friends for me. But at the end of the day why should we make a whole new brand for the few that would want a PS4? It would not work at all in my opinion for a few reasons. One is getting a bunch of RELIABLE people on the brand that you would have to recruit. Now that may seem easy in theory but do you really think a bunch of people want to come to a league where a lot of the good talent is taken already? That's pretty much what it boils down to for me. Danny, while I appreciate all the ideas like most other people have I do not think that your attitude on some things is right. For instance the line about "hard time replacing us" was completely uncalled for to be honest. If you sit down and look at the people already from XWL that are getting a PS4 are the majority truly with all do respect to them reliable? You have to sit and think of all the negatives that come with opening up a new brand like David said. You have to think of all the work that would be put in. I myself don't think the work load should be put in to implement the brand just to please the people who have gotten a PS4. To be honest my last point is this and I will try to be blunt about it. Why make the brand when it will not last in the long run? Why honestly make a brand when we would have to get more people who may not be reliable and end up leaving like most new people do? Why put effort into accommodating the small majority of you getting a PS4 when you all knew it was a 360 league, and I am sorry if this is a harsh way of looking at it but in my opinion it was stupid to think we would be opening up to the PS4 because of reason's Shuggz put above.

Dash wrote:

Let me ask you Gaz, if Greg had a PS4 and not an Xbone, would you have come to this decision so quickly knowing that you'd have to leave him out of the league? I know that question wasn't necessary, but it needed to be said. If there was a big namer on the Sony side, the decision would not have been made this quickly lol.

Pardon the double post and my language for what I am about to say but, That's bullshit. At the end of the day people need to realizes this is an Xbox league. We are not going to stand here and hold your hand and point at the One saying "Buy that to be here." but that should have been common knowledge that we where not going to the PS4. The members who are getting a PS4, I honestly don't understand where the thought of a new brand just to accommodate you even came from. We are not pushing you out as you can easily get it for the 360 and stay here.

I've already admitted I was wrong in doing that, it was a mistake that I didn't make a good judgement on, can we PLEASE stop bringing it up?

Dash wrote:

I've already admitted I was wrong in doing that, it was a mistake that I didn't make a good judgement on, can we PLEASE stop bringing it up?

Sir, I was commenting on it as like you when you made your post's yesterday I have not commented at all on the matter. When reading through the thread and I saw your post regardless if you admitted you where wrong before I wanted to comment on the matter. To Danny, I think it all comes down to this really. If you think you can run a league or in this case brand, why not make your own? Now while looking from the outside in on that comment it could seem harsh but to be fair we should not have to worry about certain people's feelings getting hurt. What Dash said about Greg actually made a good point to me in the fact that regardless if you and Oreo(which Oreo is the only one truth be told who has proven to be active out of the PS4 people since Danny you have only been here a short period of time) are good members we should not base a brand around people. We don't need to think of the people in the brand but we need to think about the concept. Which at the end of the day will fail regardless of who is in it.

Just pointing out that when we discuss this again, it will still be an admin discussion and decided by the admins.

TheFilthParade wrote:

Just pointing out that when we discuss this again, it will still be an admin discussion and decided by the admins.

This. For the record we've never said we're ruling this out completely. It's just right now no. As Gaz mentioned though, there will be a time where we're going to discuss this again, and we ask that whatever decision we come to you respect it. As it'll be for the best interest of the league as a whole.

The way I see it is this... Xwl has been out for 6 yrs, longer than the ps4. Meaning anyone getting a ps4 while knowing about xwl or leagues in General knew that they were buying a system that isn't compatible.