Help Us, Help You!

A fun match is when you go through the entire match without rage quitting or trash taking. And then using pick up finishers to get a cheap win is what pisses me off the most.

All that and one more thing. Sometimes people tend to accidentally delay maybe 2 seconds or so and since they aren't in a party with their opponent, they can't explain their case so the other person retaliates by playing cheaply.

Tryharding:
Delaying
Taunting often
Pickup finishers
Running grapples at very close range
Doing the above stuff a lot more often when starting to lose the match
Doing the longest taunt on purpose at the start of the match (although I could see this being an accident)

Fun matches:
Varying up the moves
OMG moments
Setting up cool spots



That's all the stuff I could think of at the moment.

What makes a good match? Two people who know that they're going into the match to have fun, that either way, win or lose, the result doesn't matter and the match will have been great. Let your opponent have some space. Have fun with all the different things you can do in the match rather than focusing on doing specific things because they may just be a little bit harder to reverse. Wake up taunts when you're planning to hit someone with a finisher is always something I like to see. Basically just two people who both know the rules and aren't going to bend them in every single shape and form just to make sure that they come out the victor.

What makes a bad match? Someone who's going in to the match with no intention of losing. Taunting over excessively to gain momentum for a signature or finisher. Delaying chain grapples, groggy grapples, corner grapples, any kind of grapple really. People who do nothing but run at you the whole match. People who quit the match because they can't handle the fact they aren't in the winning position. Hitting people with finishers in ridiculously unfair ways. Pick up Finishers, irish whip catapult finishers. I mean really, there are much better and fairer ways to hit your finisher and everyone knows it. Dragging people or placing them into a drag and then irish whipping them repeatedly, it's irreversible and it's a pain to be on the other end of. Finally, people who have their fingers taped to the 'A Button' at all times, leaving you no room to escape.


It would also be really nice if those who claim that they're here to play fun, fair matches would actually stick to their word and not blindside you during the match by playing like a pretentious, arrogant dick.

How is a Irish Whip for a catapult fin bad? It looks cool and you have three chances to reverse it, that's more than a normal finisher. If you fail to reverse it then it's not the other persons fault, so I don't see how doing that is cheap or unfair.

TheFilthParade wrote:

How is a Irish Whip for a catapult fin bad? It looks cool and you have three chances to reverse it, that's more than a normal finisher. If you fail to reverse it then it's not the other persons fault, so I don't see how doing that is cheap or unfair.

In my experience it's much harder to reverse a catapult finisher than it is any other kind of finisher, except maybe the Trouble In Paradise. I play the game practically every day and it's a lot tougher to get the timing down on it. The other reason is that it isn't even needed. Most catapult finishers if not all can be hit as rebound finishers, as running or standing finishers, there is no reason at all to need to throw them up into the air to hit a finisher that could be hit a completely different way and give you a larger time frame to reverse.

Dash wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

How is a Irish Whip for a catapult fin bad? It looks cool and you have three chances to reverse it, that's more than a normal finisher. If you fail to reverse it then it's not the other persons fault, so I don't see how doing that is cheap or unfair.

In my experience it's much harder to reverse a catapult finisher than it is any other kind of finisher, except maybe the Trouble In Paradise. I play the game practically every day and it's a lot tougher to get the timing down on it. The other reason is that it isn't even needed. Most catapult finishers if not all can be hit as rebound finishers, as running or standing finishers, there is no reason at all to need to throw them up into the air to hit a finisher that could be hit a completely different way and give you a larger time frame to reverse.

But most of them are cool looking and a good way to hit the finisher, It's a good addition to the game and to matches. So I don't see how it's cheap.

TheFilthParade wrote:

Dash wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

How is a Irish Whip for a catapult fin bad? It looks cool and you have three chances to reverse it, that's more than a normal finisher. If you fail to reverse it then it's not the other persons fault, so I don't see how doing that is cheap or unfair.

In my experience it's much harder to reverse a catapult finisher than it is any other kind of finisher, except maybe the Trouble In Paradise. I play the game practically every day and it's a lot tougher to get the timing down on it. The other reason is that it isn't even needed. Most catapult finishers if not all can be hit as rebound finishers, as running or standing finishers, there is no reason at all to need to throw them up into the air to hit a finisher that could be hit a completely different way and give you a larger time frame to reverse.

But most of them are cool looking and a good way to hit the finisher, It's a good addition to the game and to matches. So I don't see how it's cheap.

If you want to hit a catapult finisher, you should wait until your opponent runs at you. It's their own fault then, they threw themselves into it. Lifting someone up and throwing them against the ropes just to catch them in a catapult and then a finisher is cheap in my eyes. First of all, depending on the way the whip you, it could be irreversible, then when you do bounce against the ropes, you have a tiny frame to reverse the catapult, reversing the actual finisher after that is impossible. No one should need to go looking to hit one.

Dash wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

Dash wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

How is a Irish Whip for a catapult fin bad? It looks cool and you have three chances to reverse it, that's more than a normal finisher. If you fail to reverse it then it's not the other persons fault, so I don't see how doing that is cheap or unfair.

In my experience it's much harder to reverse a catapult finisher than it is any other kind of finisher, except maybe the Trouble In Paradise. I play the game practically every day and it's a lot tougher to get the timing down on it. The other reason is that it isn't even needed. Most catapult finishers if not all can be hit as rebound finishers, as running or standing finishers, there is no reason at all to need to throw them up into the air to hit a finisher that could be hit a completely different way and give you a larger time frame to reverse.

But most of them are cool looking and a good way to hit the finisher, It's a good addition to the game and to matches. So I don't see how it's cheap.

If you want to hit a catapult finisher, you should wait until your opponent runs at you. It's their own fault then, they threw themselves into it. Lifting someone up and throwing them against the ropes just to catch them in a catapult and then a finisher is cheap in my eyes. First of all, depending on the way the whip you, it could be irreversible, then when you do bounce against the ropes, you have a tiny frame to reverse the catapult, reversing the actual finisher after that is impossible. No one should need to go looking to hit one.

If that's the rules then to hit a top rope finisher you should have to wait for your opponent to try a diving move and knock them off the top rope, and for standing finishers you can no longer use wake up taunts instead wait for your opponent to naturally stand up by themselves.

Dash wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

Dash wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

How is a Irish Whip for a catapult fin bad? It looks cool and you have three chances to reverse it, that's more than a normal finisher. If you fail to reverse it then it's not the other persons fault, so I don't see how doing that is cheap or unfair.

In my experience it's much harder to reverse a catapult finisher than it is any other kind of finisher, except maybe the Trouble In Paradise. I play the game practically every day and it's a lot tougher to get the timing down on it. The other reason is that it isn't even needed. Most catapult finishers if not all can be hit as rebound finishers, as running or standing finishers, there is no reason at all to need to throw them up into the air to hit a finisher that could be hit a completely different way and give you a larger time frame to reverse.

But most of them are cool looking and a good way to hit the finisher, It's a good addition to the game and to matches. So I don't see how it's cheap.

If you want to hit a catapult finisher, you should wait until your opponent runs at you. It's their own fault then, they threw themselves into it. Lifting someone up and throwing them against the ropes just to catch them in a catapult and then a finisher is cheap in my eyes. First of all, depending on the way the whip you, it could be irreversible, then when you do bounce against the ropes, you have a tiny frame to reverse the catapult, reversing the actual finisher after that is impossible. No one should need to go looking to hit one.

Well there's many times in matches I've had with Red and Adam, where the Irish Whip is reversed, or the lift. It's not it's impossible to reverse, it can be done just like a normal finisher. Reversing it'self is a a lot hard this year, So I don't really understand your complaint.


It seems to me that a few people expect people just to let them do moves, or not do any moves that might be harder to reverse than others. When it comes to complaining about stupid things like doing catapult finishers then it's getting ridiculous.

TheFilthParade wrote:

Dash wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

How is a Irish Whip for a catapult fin bad? It looks cool and you have three chances to reverse it, that's more than a normal finisher. If you fail to reverse it then it's not the other persons fault, so I don't see how doing that is cheap or unfair.

In my experience it's much harder to reverse a catapult finisher than it is any other kind of finisher, except maybe the Trouble In Paradise. I play the game practically every day and it's a lot tougher to get the timing down on it. The other reason is that it isn't even needed. Most catapult finishers if not all can be hit as rebound finishers, as running or standing finishers, there is no reason at all to need to throw them up into the air to hit a finisher that could be hit a completely different way and give you a larger time frame to reverse.

But most of them are cool looking and a good way to hit the finisher, It's a good addition to the game and to matches. So I don't see how it's cheap.

To be quite honest, having catapult finishers in the game is cool, and being able to use them in the league is cool too. But, wouldn't it look more cooler and more realistic if you only did it once? Because if it's done more than once, the match wouldn't be fun anymore. Eventually you would want the match just to end, when really it should be having fun in the match and wanting it to last a really long time. For people to abuse the catapult finishers gains them an unfair advantage for themselves, and leaves their opponent bored and/or irritated. I would feel it would be better to nerf them down a little bit, just for the thrill and fun all of us are wanting in the league.

I never botch wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

Dash wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

How is a Irish Whip for a catapult fin bad? It looks cool and you have three chances to reverse it, that's more than a normal finisher. If you fail to reverse it then it's not the other persons fault, so I don't see how doing that is cheap or unfair.

In my experience it's much harder to reverse a catapult finisher than it is any other kind of finisher, except maybe the Trouble In Paradise. I play the game practically every day and it's a lot tougher to get the timing down on it. The other reason is that it isn't even needed. Most catapult finishers if not all can be hit as rebound finishers, as running or standing finishers, there is no reason at all to need to throw them up into the air to hit a finisher that could be hit a completely different way and give you a larger time frame to reverse.

But most of them are cool looking and a good way to hit the finisher, It's a good addition to the game and to matches. So I don't see how it's cheap.

To be quite honest, having catapult finishers in the game is cool, and being able to use them in the league is cool too. But, wouldn't it look more cooler and more realistic if you only did it once? Because if it's done more than once, the match wouldn't be fun anymore. Eventually you would want the match just to end, when really it should be having fun in the match and wanting it to last a really long time. For people to abuse the catapult finishers gains them an unfair advantage for themselves, and leaves their opponent bored and/or irritated. I would feel it would be better to nerf them down a little bit, just for the thrill and fun all of us are wanting in the league.

Honestly, I can see why people think it's an advantage but it's not always as i've said Catapult can be reversed, and catching ones aren't as easy to time this year either.

If it was limited to how many you could do to, then that would just be stupid.

TheFilthParade wrote:

Dash wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

Dash wrote:

TheFilthParade wrote:

How is a Irish Whip for a catapult fin bad? It looks cool and you have three chances to reverse it, that's more than a normal finisher. If you fail to reverse it then it's not the other persons fault, so I don't see how doing that is cheap or unfair.

In my experience it's much harder to reverse a catapult finisher than it is any other kind of finisher, except maybe the Trouble In Paradise. I play the game practically every day and it's a lot tougher to get the timing down on it. The other reason is that it isn't even needed. Most catapult finishers if not all can be hit as rebound finishers, as running or standing finishers, there is no reason at all to need to throw them up into the air to hit a finisher that could be hit a completely different way and give you a larger time frame to reverse.

But most of them are cool looking and a good way to hit the finisher, It's a good addition to the game and to matches. So I don't see how it's cheap.

If you want to hit a catapult finisher, you should wait until your opponent runs at you. It's their own fault then, they threw themselves into it. Lifting someone up and throwing them against the ropes just to catch them in a catapult and then a finisher is cheap in my eyes. First of all, depending on the way the whip you, it could be irreversible, then when you do bounce against the ropes, you have a tiny frame to reverse the catapult, reversing the actual finisher after that is impossible. No one should need to go looking to hit one.

Well there's many times in matches I've had with Red and Adam, where the Irish Whip is reversed, or the lift. It's not it's impossible to reverse, it can be done just like a normal finisher. Reversing it'self is a a lot hard this year, So I don't really understand your complaint.


It seems to me that a few people expect people just to let them do moves, or not do any moves that might be harder to reverse than others. When it comes to complaining about stupid things like doing catapult finishers then it's getting ridiculous.

I'm not 'complaining about stupid things like doing catapult finishers'. I just don't like set up of whipping them against the ropes to hit one. It really does give you a smaller time frame to reverse, and like I said before, depending on how they whip you, that part isn't reversible at all. I hate being hit with catapult finishers unless I run into it because it isn't realistic at all. I didn't like their inclusion to the game and I try not to him them myself, but I'm not compalining about people using them, just use them for what they were intended for, surprise finishers that catch your opponent off guard. And of course there's the fact that if you do reverse the catapult, they keep their finisher and can try and try again to their hearts content.

To me what's fun, is just knowing that you're heading into a match that isn't a contest of who can win the quickest, but an experience you can both share, and enjoy. Aside from following the in place rules, which are in place to help keep matches "fun" there is some things that can happen in matches where it just seems like you and your opponent are on two different wave lengths. Like, you'll go for a double lock up, and say your opponent isn't quick enough, so you break it, and try again, but they end up being quicker, so then they just do a chain grapple, and then keep on the attack. It's as if you show them you're wanting something, and then seeing they don't want the same.  That's a minor issue of course, doesn't really ruin matches, but it's examples like that really that can dictate the feel of a match.


Another example is like if you accidentally did something twice, or delayed even for a second longer than the time it takes to do a typical grapple. I'll pick them up, and strike them to get them in a no longer groggy state so that we can get back to the fun. But after you do it they'll immediately attack you, or if they reverse the strike they'll strong strike you and then stay on the attack. I'm not expecting my opponent to read my mind, but odds are if I'm just trying one strike, and then backing away, clearly I'm trying to get back on a fun even level. So it seems like when you're going to extra steps to ensure they're enjoying it, they couldn't care less.


Something I enjoy that is fun, is setting up awesome spots. Or, at least leaving room for them to happen naturally. Things like, reversing someone's corner move, and you're perched to dive....but then you jump to the mat, in fear they have a catch finisher...or in fear they'll reverse. The most fun part in a match is when you're trading moves and you don't know who will hit what, so to be fearful of someone reversing a move to the point you'll go out of your way to not do it, just again comes across like you're not out for fun but more so just to win the match.


Which I'll clarify it's perfectly okay to want to win a match, not downing people that do want to, but there's ways of wanting to win that don't ruin the experience for both you and your opponent. If you're facing a champion on a show, is it really worth sacrificing the match and what it could be, just to say "I beat the champ" is it really? When it comes down to improving the overall match experience, all of us seem to say we want to, that we go for fun, but when everyone says that, and issues still come about, then there's clearly something wrong with that.


A "try hard" as they're called gives their opponents, and those who view it, the idea that they aren't looking to have a fun match, just win, as quick as possible, no matter what. That is the issue, people say they don't care about winning, that they don't like facing people who try hard. But like I said above, if everyone is so against that, and says they aren't like that, then why are we still getting complaints every week about this same thing?


The fact is some people I don't know who they all are, I don't have any names to name nor would I because this isn't about calling anyone out, it's about fixing a problem that can destroy any amount of progress we've made activity wise in the last five weeks. But some people apparently don't realize that what they do in matches, is turning people off facing them, or leaving them feeling like they didn't want to have fun, just win.


I don't like Pick Up Finishers, but I'm not saying we ban them, or that they can't be used, but I mainly don't like them is because it feels like when an opponent just does pick up finishers the entire match, they aren't out for fun, they aren't looking for spots, they aren't looking to enjoy themselves or for you to enjoy it. They're out for one thing, and that's getting to say they won. Let's be honest here people, this is all supposed to be for fun, being champion isn't going to make you a cool stud in real life that can be all "Hey, I'm The Champ baby" it won't effect your life personally in ANY way. Just like winning a match has no bearing on anything that actually matters in your life. Being number one contender is cool for the league experience, but again at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.


So why do people feel like it does? Why do they get so invested, so determined on winning and not losing that they completely disregard what matches are supposed to be about in the first place? I started this league because matches suck any way else, there's too many people obsessed with winning, that will do anything to win. The league is supposed to give me, and the members that are apart of it an environment where they can have an experience they can't get anywhere else. The fun that comes along with that is doing promos, having fun feuds etc, but the MAIN reason, the reason that has all brought us here, is to have fun!


Now if I've gotten this twisted, and nobody wants to have fun, and nobody cares about enjoying a match with your buddy from anywhere in the world, a buddy that is supposed to share the same vision of having FUN, then what am I doing spending hours out of my day managing this league for? Why am I promoing, why are any of us? If we wanna just promo, and get belts, contenderships, whatever....join an Efed, promo, get the top, enjoy your accomplishments that mean nothing.


The point of a league is to have fun, a fair fun match, a match you don't bitch about afterwards, a match you don't have a REASON to bitch about afterwards. If I'm the minority here, and everyone else doesn't share this view, a view on HAVING FUN then who wants to be owner because I sure as hell don't if that's the case.

i like match

I was saying earlier in an admin chat, I don't mind if people want to win to help their promos or whatever. It's just how they go about doing that, I've had matches recently which sucked for various reasons, and matches that have been fun. There's certain people in the league who I'd rather face because I know i'll get an good fun match, but having a fun match isn't always about doing 10 let ups from fins and making it last 40 mins, go back to WWE'13 if you want that.

To me a fun match is a close competitive match, if it ends on the 3rd fin then that's fine as long as the match was good and your opponent sticks to the rules. I've had plenty of matches that end on the 3rd fin that have been fun matches.


But then there's the other side where you get matches where the opponent waits, or spams. Like doing a strike combo and hitting a fin instantly? That's shitty. I don't mind pick up fins, but if you're going to pick up and then just wait, then that's not only bullshit but against the rules too.


I could add more but I'm watching PWG.

TheFilthParade wrote:

I was saying earlier in an admin chat, I don't mind if people want to win to help their promos or whatever. It's just how they go about doing that, I've had matches recently which sucked for various reasons, and matches that have been fun. There's certain people in the league who I'd rather face because I know i'll get an good fun match, but having a fun match isn't always about doing 10 let ups from fins and making it last 40 mins, go back to WWE'13 if you want that.

To me a fun match is a close competitive match, if it ends on the 3rd fin then that's fine as long as the match was good and your opponent sticks to the rules. I've had plenty of matches that end on the 3rd fin that have been fun matches.


But then there's the other side where you get matches where the opponent waits, or spams. Like doing a strike combo and hitting a fin instantly? That's shitty. I don't mind pick up fins, but if you're going to pick up and then just wait, then that's not only bullshit but against the rules too.

My thoughts exactly^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm a pretty competitive person myself but there's still ways to be competitive AND play fair for instance. If I mess up like doing two moves in a row or that bs they have this year where you win a lock-up and the game does whatever your front facelock chain grapple because it still thinks you're tapping A. If that happens I'll back off and even let my opponent hit a few moves on me because not only do I want people to know it was an accident but it's the right thing imo. Also not naming names but I hate people who do amazing chains with me and then go tryhard on the last few fins. And people should set up spots more. Competition can be fun if you show Sportsmanship.

I don't think there would be any issues if my opponents just let me win.

Cough Suntan Cough

Maybe you should only make it that you can only do one catch finisher per match? Because when you have a finisher as HHH or someone else with a catch finisher, the other guy just refuses to ever go to the top rope.

ThatGuy wrote:

To me what's fun, is just knowing that you're heading into a match that isn't a contest of who can win the quickest, but an experience you can both share, and enjoy. Aside from following the in place rules, which are in place to help keep matches "fun" there is some things that can happen in matches where it just seems like you and your opponent are on two different wave lengths. Like, you'll go for a double lock up, and say your opponent isn't quick enough, so you break it, and try again, but they end up being quicker, so then they just do a chain grapple, and then keep on the attack. It's as if you show them you're wanting something, and then seeing they don't want the same.  That's a minor issue of course, doesn't really ruin matches, but it's examples like that really that can dictate the feel of a match.

This has always been how I've felt as well. From way back when I first started helping out the league and didn't have a 360 all the way up until now. There's just something about going into a match where I know that while winning is on their mind, it's not the priority. The main goal in mind is to just have a fun match whatever way that may be. As you mentioned there's several great ways to do that. Whether it's a long match or a short one as long as the end goal in mind is to have fun from both sides that's what's always made things enjoyable here for me.

Another example is like if you accidentally did something twice, or delayed even for a second longer than the time it takes to do a typical grapple. I'll pick them up, and strike them to get them in a no longer groggy state so that we can get back to the fun. But after you do it they'll immediately attack you, or if they reverse the strike they'll strong strike you and then stay on the attack. I'm not expecting my opponent to read my mind, but odds are if I'm just trying one strike, and then backing away, clearly I'm trying to get back on a fun even level. So it seems like when you're going to extra steps to ensure they're enjoying it, they couldn't care less.


Something I enjoy that is fun, is setting up awesome spots. Or, at least leaving room for them to happen naturally. Things like, reversing someone's corner move, and you're perched to dive....but then you jump to the mat, in fear they have a catch finisher...or in fear they'll reverse. The most fun part in a match is when you're trading moves and you don't know who will hit what, so to be fearful of someone reversing a move to the point you'll go out of your way to not do it, just again comes across like you're not out for fun but more so just to win the match.

This is something I've enjoyed ever since becoming a part of XWL. From behind the scene's as Fn, to actually being able to get a 360 and taking part, coming up with spots in matches make up a lot of fun moments for me and keep me enjoying things. Granted, I'm not saying the whole matchup should be made up of spots but it's always something I felt that, when done right can really draw the viewers into the matches and keep them interested for however long it may be. It's one of the many reasons why I've enjoyed nearly all of the feuds I've had here. While the main matches are fun as a whole adding that extra layer to it just makes it that much more enjoyable to me.

Which I'll clarify it's perfectly okay to want to win a match, not downing people that do want to, but there's ways of wanting to win that don't ruin the experience for both you and your opponent. If you're facing a champion on a show, is it really worth sacrificing the match and what it could be, just to say "I beat the champ" is it really? When it comes down to improving the overall match experience, all of us seem to say we want to, that we go for fun, but when everyone says that, and issues still come about, then there's clearly something wrong with that.

A "try hard" as they're called gives their opponents, and those who view it, the idea that they aren't looking to have a fun match, just win, as quick as possible, no matter what. That is the issue, people say they don't care about winning, that they don't like facing people who try hard. But like I said above, if everyone is so against that, and says they aren't like that, then why are we still getting complaints every week about this same thing?

This is also something that, I personally do not like. Am I saying you can't want to win? No, no I'm not. At the same time, we created this league for everyone to have a fun experience. If [insert person here] likes to have fun, back and forth long matches, then that's great. Whereas if [insert person 2 here] also likes to do the same but gets more fun out of winning then that's great too. For me I firmly believe it's okay to want to win. BUT, I think there needs to be an understanding more now than there used to be. That even if that is your main goal, you can still go about it in a fun way, that doesn't turn off the other person and lets say ruin the match. It's a very big grey area so all we ever ask is try and find a balance. As long as everyone has fun that's all that's mattered to me.

The fact is some people I don't know who they all are, I don't have any names to name nor would I because this isn't about calling anyone out, it's about fixing a problem that can destroy any amount of progress we've made activity wise in the last five weeks. But some people apparently don't realize that what they do in matches, is turning people off facing them, or leaving them feeling like they didn't want to have fun, just win.


I don't like Pick Up Finishers, but I'm not saying we ban them, or that they can't be used, but I mainly don't like them is because it feels like when an opponent just does pick up finishers the entire match, they aren't out for fun, they aren't looking for spots, they aren't looking to enjoy themselves or for you to enjoy it. They're out for one thing, and that's getting to say they won. Let's be honest here people, this is all supposed to be for fun, being champion isn't going to make you a cool stud in real life that can be all "Hey, I'm The Champ baby" it won't effect your life personally in ANY way. Just like winning a match has no bearing on anything that actually matters in your life. Being number one contender is cool for the league experience, but again at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.


So why do people feel like it does? Why do they get so invested, so determined on winning and not losing that they completely disregard what matches are supposed to be about in the first place? I started this league because matches suck any way else, there's too many people obsessed with winning, that will do anything to win. The league is supposed to give me, and the members that are apart of it an environment where they can have an experience they can't get anywhere else. The fun that comes along with that is doing promos, having fun feuds etc, but the MAIN reason, the reason that has all brought us here, is to have fun!


Now if I've gotten this twisted, and nobody wants to have fun, and nobody cares about enjoying a match with your buddy from anywhere in the world, a buddy that is supposed to share the same vision of having FUN, then what am I doing spending hours out of my day managing this league for? Why am I promoing, why are any of us? If we wanna just promo, and get belts, contenderships, whatever....join an Efed, promo, get the top, enjoy your accomplishments that mean nothing.


The point of a league is to have fun, a fair fun match, a match you don't bitch about afterwards, a match you don't have a REASON to bitch about afterwards. If I'm the minority here, and everyone else doesn't share this view, a view on HAVING FUN then who wants to be owner because I sure as hell don't if that's the case.

At the end of the day, I've been the co-owner of this league for what seems like ages. I came into this place before I even had an xbox. I was an outsider for years and I've only been able to really sit by "behind the scene's" while David got to experience things from a hands on level. That being said one thing we've always prided ourselves on is the fact that, no matter what, people love our league because it is FUN.

Regardless of whether your definition of fun is winning 100%, or like mine, just having a great match as a whole and then if you win it's a bonus, doesn't matter. The main reason I joined back then and went and got a 360 is because this place is fun. Do I like facing people who are 100% about winning? No, no I don't. I won't hate them for it though. As they know, regardless of that, I'm still going to want to have a fun match. So they work with me to find a balance and a happy medium. That needs to be done again here.

I don't know how but, I firmly believe that if everyone worked together to achieve that more, then we wouldn't have to run into threads like this. At the end of the day, I love this place and it's always going to hold a special place in my heart. Win, lose, I don't care. I have fun no matter who I'm against. Fun is key here. It's a big reason why we've seen tons of outsiders join and love it here. Because it LOOKS and actually turns out to BE fun for them. So you like to win and that's fun for you? Good job no problems here. So you like to just have a fun experience period, that's great as well. It's all about finding that balance guys. Things need to stop feeling so one sided. You can still have fun whether you win or lose and you can still also have fun even if it's not the most inventive, creative, or longest match out there. It's all about working together. So lets do that again and show people why THIS league has stood as long as it has. Instead of fighting about differences lets come together. I know I will.

So to those who have replied, and those who have yet to, what can change it? We've got things that basically tell us what type of match it will be, so how do we prevent those things from happening so often at least? It's easy to tell people to just calm down, relax, have fun but apparently that's not done anything or else we wouldn't have some of the situations we've had happen recently because of matches. We wouldn't have people not wanting to face certain people because of said things, we wouldn't have people afraid to face new people in fear it won't be fun, that they'll just be out for the win. So what exactly is done about that? What are so modifications we can make to ensure that things improve from how they are?

It's a heavily debated topic, and there may not be an "easy" fix but there has be something we can all agree on to make things at least a little bit better than they've been. It's okay to want to win, but it shouldn't take precedent over having "fun."

You will always have this issue because people will deny that they have done anything wrong. If I waited against Gaz once, fair enough he would pobably put it down as an accident but it happens more than once in a short space of time and it just seems far too unlikely to be an accident. That is what appens, then they get called out on it and they deny it until they are blue in the face. Unless an admin is always.present or everyone buys cams this will always happen.

It's not just waiting though or breaking the rules, people are becoming entirely too competitive, that's what this is really about. Not people saying they didn't wait and people saying someone did. People are playing in ways that aren't fun for the opponent, and clearly depict that they only care about winning. Which if that keeps up all of the progress we made of getting activity back up will go away because no one will want to do matches anymore.

It's had to categorize "too competitive" though,People see it differently. Like I've never once had a problem with someone like Shuggz and always enjoy our matches, but that doesn't mean everybody would enjoy facing me or facing Shuggz.

People have different views on a fun match, and there isn't really anything that can be done to change that since most of time it's not breaking the rules. Some people just enjoy their matches, some people just bitch about their matches, with no real reason to.

For me personally I can count on one hand the number of people I look forward to doing matches with. Those people probably feel the same way too. If I face the unknown, like someone new or someone I haven't had many matches with before, I fear the worst. And usually, my instincts are right. The reason why? I don't know. Maybe people are intimidated by the good promos (not saying mine are) and feel the need to win by any means necessary to make themselves feel better about their own (which are probably good anyway). Maybe they want to desperately pick up a win against a more active member or someone with a previous championship reign to feel like they're awesome (lol). Or maybe it's that people join and just simply don't read the rules. It's there, but who actually reads them? It seems like almost everyone that has joined recently waits in the grapples or does some other annoying thing which is against the rules, but nothing ever comes of it. The only rule that appears to be upheld consistently is the three finishers rule. It's ok to play to win if it's within the rules, because the rules are what make the matches fun. Playing to win is not a negative thing, you shouldn't make it out to be that way. Winning is fine if it is done in a certain way, a fair way, where nobody can have any complaints and if it's done in that way, chances are, the loser would have enjoyed the match despite the loss and would feel like they are able to congratulate whoever won. When was the last time anyone had a "gg" or "congrats" message?